Legislature(1995 - 1996)

01/17/1996 09:05 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
  HOUSE BILL NO. 412                                                           
                                                                               
       An Act making appropriations for the operating and                      
       loan  program expenses  of  state government,  for                      
       certain programs, and  to capitalize funds; making                      
       appropriations   under   art.   IX,  sec.   17(c),                      
       Constitution  of  the  State of  Alaska,  from the                      
       constitutional budget reserve fund;  and providing                      
       for an effective date.                                                  
                                                                               
            FY 97 Statewide Operating Budget Overview                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
                        was presented by                                       
                   Annalee McConnell, Director                                 
                 Office of Management and Budget                               
                                                                               
  Upon convening  the meeting,  Co-chairman Frank  invited the                 
  director  of the  Office of  Management and  Budget to  join                 
  members at the  committee table and  present an overview  of                 
  the FY  97 state operating  budget.  ANNALEE  McCONNELL came                 
  before committee.    She explained  that the  administration                 
  prepared the FY  97 budget  in the concept  of a  multi-year                 
  plan  as outlined  in  the Governor's  state  of the  budget                 
  address.  It is part of "the safe landing" toward a balanced                 
  budget within six years.  Highlights involve:                                
                                                                               
       1.   Control  of  areas  that  have  experienced  rapid                 
  growth.                                                                      
            (Welfare  reform   and  Medicaid  were   given  as                 
  examples.)                                                                   
                                                                               
       2.   Streamlining efforts  such  as  job  training  and                 
  economic       development   services   which   often  cross                 
                 departmental lines.                                           
                                                                               
       3.   Technological  improvements  such   as  automation                 
  within                                                                       
            the Office of Management and Budget.                               
                                                                               
       4.   Utilization of  a "mix  of tools,"  many of  which                 
  were           recommended    by    the    fiscal   planning                 
                 commission.                                                   
                                                                               
  Focusing on budget cuts, Ms. McConnell acknowledged  concern                 
  regarding whether significant fee  increases or taxes should                 
  be  levied  before  budget  cutting  is accomplished.    She                 
  stressed  that  the Legislature  and  the  previous Governor                 
  enacted  significant cost  cutting  efforts  that  were  not                 
  always  visible to the public.   She noted specifically that                 
  the public does  not often think of  absorption of inflation                 
  as cost control.                                                             
                                                                               
  Tax  proposals recommended  by the administration  to offset                 
  need for constitutional budget reserve funds are included in                 
  the  budget  at   3/4-year  funding  to  provide   time  for                 
  implementation.  That is reflected in the difference between                 
  the fiscal planning commission proposal  of $107 million and                 
  the administration's  $80 million.   Ms. McConnell  stressed                 
  that the six-cent fuel  tax has not been increased  since it                 
  was established in 1961.  Alaska's fuel tax is the lowest in                 
  the United States.  The national median is twenty-two cents.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Ms.  McConnell   next  directed   attention  to   a  handout                 
  (Attachment  A)  evidencing  a  breakdown  of  the  $2,356.0                 
  operating budget and  noted that  "less than half  of it  is                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  really going  for directly  provided state  services."   The                 
  other   half   is   dispersed   through   local   assistance                 
  (municipalities and school districts), grants to individuals                 
  (welfare payments and longevity bonus payments), or services                 
  provided through nonprofits.                                                 
                                                                               
  The  second  page   of  the   handout  relates  to   factors                 
  contributing to  the budget  gap between  FY 96  and FY  97.                 
  Factors increasing the gap consist of:                                       
                                                                               
       1.   Reduced oil revenues.                                              
                                                                               
       2.   A  reduction in moneys realized in FY  96 (the $72                 
  million        from Executive Life was mentioned) that  will                 
                 not be forthcoming in FY 97.                                  
                                                                               
       3.   The dividend  arrangement with AHFC calls  for $70                 
  million        the first  year and $50  million the  second.                 
                 There is thus a $20 million difference here.                  
                                                                               
       4.   Small,   individual    adjustments   that    total                 
  approximately       $10 million.                                             
                                                                               
  Factors decreasing the gap:                                                  
                                                                               
       1.   Greater TAPS fund revenues.                                        
                                                                               
       2.   Shift of general fund support to user fees.                        
                                                                               
  Speaking  to the process  utilized in  developing the  FY 97                 
  budget, Ms. McConnell explained  that the administration did                 
  not start  with caps  for individual  departments since  the                 
  intent was to address the  budget "from a policy standpoint"                 
  and explore options.  The departments  were asked to provide                 
  information on changes that could be made both in the coming                 
  year and  over  a  three-year  period.    Changes  in  state                 
  operations  often do not make  it through the budget process                 
  because   they   may   require   more   than  a   year   for                 
  implementation.  Ms. McConnell next spoke to need to capture                 
  proposed  changes  and   attested  to  minicabinet   efforts                 
  associated  with changes that cut across departmental lines.                 
  Need for  an   additional prosecutor  at Bethel  as well  as                 
  subsequent  demand  on  the public  defender  and  office of                 
  public advocacy were given as examples of action  that would                 
  impact the entire criminal justice system.                                   
                                                                               
  Recommendations   of   the  Long-Range   Financial  Planning                 
  Commission  were also  considered in the  budgeting process,                 
  although  not all  of  them  were  adopted.   Ms.  McConnell                 
  specifically noted that the recommended cap on the permanent                 
  fund dividend was  not utilized by the  administration while                 
  recommended taxes and  fees were pursued.   The budget  also                 
  reflects review  of services provided  by local  governments                 
  versus the state.                                                            
                                                                               
                                                                               
  The  impact  of  cuts  was   viewed  from  both  a  regional                 
  perspective  and  a  balance between  what  state  agencies,                 
  programs, local governments, and individuals are expected to                 
  do.                                                                          
                                                                               
  Ms. McConnell  next acknowledged  questions surrounding  the                 
  proposed  $5 million shift from general  funds to user fees.                 
  She  cited  Alaska  pioneer  homes  as  an  example.    Most                 
  residents and  their families  were not  aware of the  "huge                 
  disparity" between the  cost of  providing care and  payment                 
  for care.   While the average  payment is $700, the  average                 
  cost is $4,000.  The cost of beds providing extra assistance                 
  is $6,400 a  month.  Instead of reducing  the number of beds                 
  or cutting back on services,  the administration worked with                 
  families to bring payments  closer to the cost  of care.   A                 
  seven-year plan is proposed to  equalize costs and payments.                 
  In instances where a  family cannot afford the full  cost of                 
  care, a sliding fee scale will be provided.                                  
                                                                               
  Pointing to subsequent  pages in the handout,  Ms. McConnell                 
  noted that they  provide a fund-source  comparison of FY  96                 
  and 97 budgets as well as  a historical breakdown of formula                 
  programs.  She noted that authorized figures used throughout                 
  the budget are up to date,  including Legislative Budget and                 
  Audit Committee  action, with  the exception  of that  taken                 
  since presentation of the budget.                                            
                                                                               
  Ms.  McConnell  next  addressed  process  changes  discussed                 
  throughout   the  summer  and   fall  and   highlighted  new                 
  information set forth  in the "Executive Budget  Summary for                 
  Fiscal Year 1997" (Attachment B).                                            
                                                                               
  Attention  was  next directed  to a  list (Attachment  C) of                 
  items transferred from  the capital budget to  the operating                 
  budget.  Although  the items  have long been  funded in  the                 
  capital budget, they  are operating expenses and do not meet                 
  the statutory capital expenditure requirement and  carryover                 
  date.  Mr. McConnell asked that  members review the list and                 
  advise if there is objection to  the transfer.  She stressed                 
  specific need to "get  a much better fix on  maintenance" in                 
  order to "get  away from  the deferred maintenance  problem"                 
  and adequately maintain state facilities.                                    
                                                                               
  A  further  area  where  agreement  is  needed  between  the                 
  Legislature  and  the administration  is  "how we  treat the                 
  numbers in our budget."  Mr.  McConnell voiced need to avoid                 
  situations where the  administration attempts to  explain to                 
  the press or  the public "adjustments  between how you  show                 
  your numbers in the Legislative branch  and how we show them                 
  in the executive branch."                                                    
                                                                               
  Changes  in  the   front  section  of  the   budget  include                 
  aggregation  of  all  items relating  to  AHFC.   Department                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  budgets are in alphabetical order in the appropriation bill.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Separate mental health appropriation  legislation (SB 214/HB
  413) was  also introduced  for the  first time.   A  summary                 
  chart  highlights differences  between  mental health  trust                 
  board recommendations and the Governor's proposed budget.                    
                                                                               
  The   "Executive  Budget   Summary"  demonstrates   how  the                 
  administration  is using funding, why  it is being used, and                 
  goals and  objectives.   Performance measures  have been  of                 
  concern to legislators for some  time.  Every department  is                 
  beginning to deal with that.  The administration will  check                 
  with them at mid points during the year to evaluate progress                 
  in meeting performance  measures.  Next year's  summary will                 
  report on that effort.   The next summary will  also contain                 
  more information  outlining budgetary  differences from  one                 
  year to the next.                                                            
                                                                               
  Ms. McConnell next flagged the following generic issues that                 
  she indicated might arise:                                                   
                                                                               
       1.   Adjustments in  risk  management rates.    In  the                 
  past,          everyday claims were taken  from catastrophic                 
                 reserves and  the fund was  not reserved  for                 
                 major catastrophic occurrences.   Departments                 
                 did  not  then  see  the  result of  lack  of                 
                 efforts  in   worker  safety,   etc.     More                 
                 effective   management    will   make    each                 
                 department  responsible  for  risk management                 
                 rates and require departments to work hard to                 
                 bring rates down.                                             
                                                                               
       2.   Health  benefits.    The  administration  will  be                 
  proposing           changes  here.     AETNA  reserves   are                 
                      approximately "$2 million more than they                 
                      need  to be."   The monthly benefit rate                 
                      will  thus be  brought down  in the  '97                 
                      budget,  and  cost control  efforts will                 
                      continue.                                                
                                                                               
  The debt service schedule includes  current projections from                 
  school  districts   regarding  debt   that  will  be   sold.                 
  Information does not assume sale of  new bonds at this time.                 
  It merely reflects what has already been authorized.                         
                                                                               
  Ms.  McConnell  concluded  her  overview  at this  time  and                 
  welcomed questions and comments from members.                                
                                                                               
  Senator  Rieger referenced  funding  source information  and                 
  questioned   the   $16  or   $17   million  draw   from  the                 
  constitutional  budget reserve  fund.   Ms. McConnell  noted                 
  that amounts  shown reflect Court  System and  Dept. of  Law                 
  expenditures "charged directly  to the CBR" rather  than the                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  amount needed to close the budget gap.                                       
                                                                               
  In  response  to  further   questions  from  Senator  Rieger                 
  regarding longevity  bonus payments and  whether the program                 
  is drawing people  to Alaska,  Ms. McConnell explained  that                 
  while she could  not say whether the program has  acted as a                 
  draw, the Dept.  of Administration  reconstructed its  model                 
  for   calculating  longevity   bonus   projections.     Past                 
  calculations included "wild swings" over "very short periods                 
  of  time."    Reconstruction will  attempt  to  produce more                 
  accurate forecasting of  future demand.  The  projection for                 
  next year is $350.0 more than FY 96.  Alaska and Hawaii have                 
  the fastest growing rate of citizens over 65 years of age.                   
                                                                               
  Further  discussion  regarding  operation of  the  longevity                 
  bonus  program  followed  between  Senator  Rieger,  Senator                 
  Sharp,  and  Ms.  McConnell.   Ms.  McConnell  stressed that                 
  although payments to new people joining the system are less,                 
  the number of  people obtaining bonus payments  has exceeded                 
  the  degree   of  phase   out.     However,  under   current                 
  projections, phase out  should begin to evidence  reductions                 
  in FY 98.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger next asked if  the TAPS settlement included a                 
  fixed tariff  for capital costs,  regardless of  throughput,                 
  with adjustments for operating costs.  Ms. McConnell advised                 
  that she would obtain and return an answer to the Senator.                   
                                                                               
  Senator  Rieger next  inquired  concerning  efforts  by  the                 
  administration  regarding  tier III.    [The following  is a                 
  transcript of that discussion.]                                              
                                                                               
  Senator  Rieger  -  I'm  aware  that  there  has  been  some                 
  continuing     discussion    on    Tier    III    and    the                 
                 administration's plan to do something.  Where                 
                 is the administration on  Tier III, and  what                 
                 are  you  .  .  .  .    [Overlapping  voices,                 
                 Senators Rieger and Phillips]                                 
                                                                               
  Senator Phillips - That was one of my questions.                             
                                                                               
  Annalee McConnell -  Count that as  a two for one  question.                 
  Right.    The  administration  has  been   working  on  some                 
            adjustments to  the  proposed plan,  and  I  think                 
            we'll  be  prepared  to come  forward  with  those                 
            relatively soon.  I can ask  Mark Boyer if he will                 
            be prepared to  address that in the  overview.  He                 
            may not  be  quite there  yet.   They're  doing  a                 
            number  of  things  right  now.   They're  running                 
            actuarials  on   different  proposals,   different                 
            adjustments that have been discussed, to  see what                 
            the exact impact  would be before we  come forward                 
            with any proposal, so that  we're not doing things                 
            by the seat  of the pants, but actually  have some                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
            good hard information  behind it.  So, if it's not                 
            ready now, or say, within the next week or  so . .                 
            .  I mean, it certainly  has been our intention to                 
            try  to  get  that pulled  together  early  in the                 
            session.                                                           
                                                                               
  Senator Phillips  -  Is that  going  to be  in the  form  of                 
  legislation    or is that going to be internal?                              
                                                                               
  Annalee McConnell -  In the form of  the proposal?   I'm not                 
  sure,     logistically,   how   we'll   suggest  doing   it.                 
            Ultimately,  of  course,  it  would  end up  as  a                 
            legislative proposal.  But whether or  not . . . .                 
            Just which vehicle, I can't say at this point.                     
                                                                               
  [End of transcript.]                                                         
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger referenced  Mental Health Trust/General Funds                 
  shown  in funding source information  and asked if the trust                 
  had generated income.  Ms. McConnell responded affirmatively                 
  and   advised   that  the   trust  authority   is  proposing                 
  utilization of  some of the income to  augment services this                 
  year.   Funding will be used  for "creative things" in terms                 
  of transition  for patients  at Harborview.   Ms.  McConnell                 
  referenced a chart presented December 15,  and noted that it                 
  summarized  funding  from  the mental  health  trust  income                 
  versus what  would flow  from mental  health general  funds.                 
  The chart also  provides a track between  recommendations of                 
  the trust authority and the administration's proposal.                       
                                                                               
  In response  to a further question from  Senator Rieger, Ms.                 
  McConnell  said  that  the initial  proposal  was  to  use a                 
  portion, approximately $500.0.   Some  areas of service  for                 
  beneficiaries are now  in limbo because of  proposed federal                 
  changes.  It was the intention  to have a subsequent meeting                 
  to  make a final determination, in light of federal changes.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Senator  Rieger voiced  his  understanding that  the  mental                 
  health trust  was to produce income, and  it was anticipated                 
  that the state might supplement that with general funds.  He                 
  then referenced the  $108 million in the  Governor's budget,                 
  acknowledged  that  not all  of  the total  flowed  from the                 
  trust,  and inquired regarding  the general fund supplement.                 
  Ms. McConnell explained that the Governor's budget flags all                 
  general  funds for  beneficiaries.   The first  step  of the                 
  mental health trust  budget process was review  to determine                 
  whether   the  trust   agreed   with  the   administration's                 
  determination of  what was  money for  beneficiaries.   Some                 
  areas, such as corrections and education, evidenced need for                 
  adjustments.   General fund/mental  health is  shown in  the                 
  budget  as  a category  of spending  in the  separate mental                 
  health bill  (SB 214/HB 413).   For  information now  before                 
  committee,  general  funds  and mental  health  moneys  were                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  rolled  together to produce totals  so that the full picture                 
  could be seen.                                                               
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger voiced  his understanding that  approximately                 
  $500.0  of the $108 million would flow  from the trust.  Ms.                 
  McConnell concurred.   She added  that trust income  for the                 
  first year is expected to be approximately $1 million.  That                 
  amount will grow but will be  limited in early years because                 
  of start-up expenses.  The annual report provides an outline                 
  of trust income and what is estimated to be available in the                 
  future.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Senator Randy  Phillips voiced  his  understanding that  the                 
  Governor proposes a  $40 million  reduction.  Ms.  McConnell                 
  acknowledged a $40  million reduction in total  general fund                 
  support ($35 million in  expenditure cuts and $5  million in                 
  user fees).   Senator Phillips noted that  approximately $15                 
  million relates  to  debt reduction.    He then  asked  what                 
  portion  of  the  remaining $20  million  is  dependent upon                 
  passage  of  legislation.   Ms.  McConnell replied  that the                 
  administration identified $13 million requiring legislation.                 
  A portion of that relates to the RIP program,  approximately                 
  $6  million  is  longevity  bonus,   and  the  remainder  is                 
  comprised  of a  "group  of other  things."   Ms.  McConnell                 
  acknowledged  that questions  had  been raised  regarding  a                 
  budget that is dependent upon legislation.  She  then voiced                 
  her  opinion that "If we look to  do budgets, in the future,                 
  without  legislation,  we're just  talking about  the status                 
  quo."                                                                        
                                                                               
  Senator Phillips next asked if the administration supports a                 
  $100  million  cut in  the  next  three years.    He further                 
  inquired regarding the administration's philosophy and stand                 
  on the long-range  financial planning commission plan.   Ms.                 
  McConnell referenced  comments in  the state  of the  budget                 
  address and stressed  the importance  of closing the  fiscal                 
  gap.      The   Governor   has   some   disagreements   with                 
  recommendations presented by the commission  in terms of how                 
  the tools are used, which tools  are used, and the sequence.                 
  He is comfortable  with the concept  of a $100 million  cut.                 
  Ms. McConnell cautioned  that it is difficult  to determine,                 
  in  isolation, what is good  or bad.   She stressed need for                 
  future planning and acknowledged that $40 million is not the                 
  only number possible for this year's budget cut.                             
                                                                               
  The Governor  has expressed  concern and  is opposed to  the                 
  proposal  to  cap dividends.    The commission  recommends a                 
  reduction of $50  million in the  total for dividends.   The                 
  Governor believes that  institution of an income  tax should                 
  be explored  prior to  placing a  cap on  the dividend.   In                 
  response to a question from Co-chairman Frank, Ms. McConnell                 
  acknowledged  that  the  administration  has  not  discussed                 
  introduction of an income tax this year.  The administration                 
  would prefer  to work  with the legislature  and attempt  to                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  develop consensus on how the budget gap  can be closed.  She                 
  acknowledged that  neither  the  executive  nor  legislative                 
  branch  could  do  so  alone and  stressed  need  for better                 
  understanding and support from the public.                                   
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Frank observed that something else would have to                 
  replace the $50  million if  the dividend is  not capped  or                 
  income tax  legislation is  not introduced.   Ms.  McConnell                 
  agreed.    She  remarked  that  the commission  report  also                 
  assumes a ballot issue this fall to take the endowment issue                 
  to  the  public.    Great public  concern  has  been  raised                 
  regarding  the  endowment.    Most  people  understand  that                 
  permanent fund earnings will have to  play some role at some                 
  time.  It is  unlikely that all  will come together in  time                 
  for an  election this  year and  flow of  endowment earnings                 
  next year.                                                                   
                                                                               
  END:      SFC-96, #2, Side 1                                                 
  BEGIN:    SFC-96, #2, Side 2                                                 
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Frank  asked  if the  Governor has  a plan  that                 
  would  close  the gap.    Ms. McConnell  suggested  that the                 
  commission plan  is a  starting point.   The  administration                 
  seeks to work with the legislature  to reach consensus.  Ms.                 
  McConnell pointed to problems encountered by the  commission                 
  in that  when one  part of  a plan is  jettisoned, one  must                 
  figure out how to fill the hole.                                             
                                                                               
  Senator Randy  Phillips asked if the administration supports                 
  placing  the  commission  recommendation for  conversion  of                 
  permanent fund savings  to an  endowment before the  voters.                 
  Ms. McConnell responded, "Not at this point in FY 96."                       
                                                                               
  The Senator  next inquired  concerning the  administration's                 
  stand on additional transfers from the constitutional budget                 
  reserve and earnings  reserve account into the  principal of                 
  the permanent fund.   Ms. McConnell  responded, "As we  have                 
  outlined  in the  budget, we're  proposing that  there be  a                 
  transfer  in February . . .  in the context of  a plan."  It                 
  does not make  sense to foreclose  options until a plan  has                 
  been developed.   In response  to subsequent questions  from                 
  Senator  Phillips  concerning  the transfer,  Ms.  McConnell                 
  clarified that the effective  date of the transfer  from the                 
  earnings  reserve (set  forth  in the  front section  of the                 
  budget) to  the permanent  fund corpus was  to be  February,                 
  unless there  was "some other  constitutional amendment that                 
  suggested doing it  otherwise."  The  date was set to  allow                 
  for the election and subsequent ratification.                                
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Frank inquired regarding  the "Dave Rose  plan,"                 
  asking if a formal  paper had been prepared.   Ms. McConnell                 
  responded affirmatively, saying that  Mr. Rose submitted his                 
  proposal after the commission finished its work.                             
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Senator Phillips next asked  if the administration  supports                 
  the  recommended  increase  in  motor  vehicle  fees.    Ms.                 
  McConnell replied, "We  have not made a  determination yet."                 
  That  recommendation  was   for  the   second  year.     The                 
  administration has  concentrated on recommendations  for the                 
  first year.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Senator   Phillips  voiced   his   understanding  that   the                 
  administration supports $5  million in fees rather  than the                 
  recommended $3 million.   Ms.  McConnell clarified that  the                 
  budget  calls for  a  total  of $8  million  in  fees.   The                 
  commission identified $40 million in cuts and  $3 million in                 
  user fees.   The administration repackaged  the combination.                 
  The  effect  on the  fiscal  gap  is the  same  $43 million,                 
  "between those  two tools."   Senator Phillips asked  if the                 
  administration  supports  the  concept of  user  fees.   Ms.                 
  McConnell said  that the  administration wished  to consider                 
  fees on a case-by-case basis.   Fees are appropriate in some                 
  instances while they are not in others.                                      
                                                                               
  Senator  Donley  voiced  his understanding  that  commission                 
  recommendations call  for $40 million in cuts.   Those cuts,                 
  however, were not identified.                                                
                                                                               
  Senator  Phillips inquired  concerning  support for  the $20                 
  million   in  alcohol   tax   increases.     Ms.   McConnell                 
  acknowledged that it was included in the state of the budget                 
  speech.   In response  to a  further question regarding  $30                 
  million in fishing, timber, and  mining taxes, Ms. McConnell                 
  remarked, "That's an outyear proposal.  We've  not yet taken                 
  a  position  on  that."    Co-chairman  Frank  asked  if the                 
  Governor  had  introduced  an alcohol  tax.    Ms. McConnell                 
  responded  negatively, saying  that  the commission  drafted                 
  legislation to be introduced as a  package through the Rules                 
  Committee.   There is now  a question as  to whether  or not                 
  that will happen.  In the  course of further discussion, Ms.                 
  McConnell  said  that  the  commission  operated  under  the                 
  expectation that its recommendations  would be introduced as                 
  a  package since it  was neither  the responsibility  of any                 
  individual  legislator  nor the  administration  to "present                 
  that package of taxes, fees, etc."                                           
  Co-chairman Frank pointed to the constitutional requirements                 
  that the Governor submit a budget.   That budget anticipates                 
  legislative changes  to achieve the  target.  It  thus seems                 
  appropriate for the Governor to introduce legislation needed                 
  to  balance  the budget.   Ms.  McConnell  said it  would be                 
  appropriate for the  legislature to give the  commission the                 
  courtesy of accepting the legislative package drafted by the                 
  commission.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Discussion of introduction of legislation through  the Rules                 
  Committee followed.                                                          
                                                                               
  Senator  Randy Phillips  next  inquired  concerning the  $44                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  million increase (8 cents a gallon to 22 cents) in the motor                 
  fuel tax.  Ms. McConnell said that the Governor supports the                 
  proposal.  She  further advised  that the administration  is                 
  working  on  proposals  to  address  issues of  transfer  of                 
  responsibilities  for   roads  from   the  state   to  local                 
  governments.  Senator  Phillips asked if the  Governor would                 
  support  dedication  of  funds for  road  maintenance.   Ms.                 
  McConnell referenced  comments in  the state  of the  budget                 
  address  to  the   effect  that  the  Governor   supports  a                 
  constitutionally dedicated motor fuel tax.                                   
                                                                               
  Senator  Phillips inquired  regarding  support  for the  $43                 
  million tobacco tax.  Ms. McConnell acknowledged support and                 
  inclusion  of the  increase  in the  proposed  budget.   She                 
  cautioned that it  is not  included at $43  million, but  at                 
  three-quarter-year funding.                                                  
                                                                               
  Responding to an inquiry concerning  the $20 million tourism                 
  tax,  Ms.  McConnell noted  that  it represents  an "outyear                 
  tax."   There  is no  specific commission  proposal at  this                 
  time.    As  with resource  taxes,  the  commission believes                 
  tourism taxes  should be looked  at, but  it had no  time to                 
  develop specifics.     The administration  has  not taken  a                 
  position on the issue.                                                       
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Halford  asked  when  the  supplemental  request                 
  would be  introduced.   Ms. McConnell advised  of intent  to                 
  introduce a proposal "in a couple of weeks."  She referenced                 
  the  administration's intent  to  control supplementals  and                 
  said she was not expecting "any big surprises."                              
                                                                               
  In response to  a question  from the Co-chairman  concerning                 
  timing of the  capital budget, Ms. McConnell  advised of the                 
  administration's "hope to have that by the 31st of January."                 
  The number in the budget plan is approximately $110 million.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Halford  next inquired  concerning a  cutoff for                 
  budget  amendments.    Ms.  McConnell  referenced  the legal                 
  deadline  of 60 days.   She  said she  did not  anticipate a                 
  great number of amendments.  As a caveat, however, she noted                 
  lack of federal resolution in a number of budget areas.                      
                                                                               
  Co-chairman  Halford  expressed   concern  regarding   large                 
  numbers  presented  to  the  Legislative  Budget  and  Audit                 
  Committee by  the  Exxon  Valdez trust.    He  referenced  a                 
  requirement that  trustees present a  budget as part  of the                 
  state budget and  noted that "We're  not getting that."   He                 
  then  voiced  his hope  that  the Office  of  Management and                 
  Budget would review  AS 37.14.415  for compliance.   Concern                 
  has been raised in budget  and audit that those expenditures                 
  go "around decisions  made by the full  finance committees."                 
  He asked for a  joint proposal from the trust  authority and                 
  administration.      Ms.    McConnell   acknowledged    that                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Representative Martin had pinpointed that concern.  She said                 
  she would address both that issue  as well as concern "about                 
  out  years."    She  acknowledged   a  number  of  statutory                 
  requirements  that have  not been observed  in the  past and                 
  said she had made considerable effort to comply, pointing to                 
  improvements in the recent budget submission.                                
                                                                               
  Co-chairman  Halford  stressed  the  importance  of   making                 
  information  available.    Staff must  have  ample  time for                 
  budget  review.  Ms. McConnell  agreed.  She noted, however,                 
  the when the capital budget was  submitted last year, it was                 
  quite some time before  the legislature dealt with it.   She                 
  then expressed her opinion that hearings giving it the level                 
  of attention it deserved were never  held.  She concurred in                 
  need  for  cooperating  between the  administration  and the                 
  legislature, saying that both  have a great deal of  work to                 
  do  in improving the capital budget  process.  Ms. McConnell                 
  further commented that she  had been unable to make  many of                 
  the changes she would like because many of the tools used by                 
  the state are antiquated.  Ability to provide information in                 
  a form that is useful to  the legislature and the public  is                 
  "no where near what it needs to be."                                         
                                                                               
  Further comments on timely  submission of materials followed                 
  by  both  Co-chairman  Halford  and   Ms.  McConnell.    Ms.                 
  McConnell noted that  capital budget categories will  be the                 
  same as last year.                                                           
                                                                               
  Co-chairman  Halford  voiced  his  understanding  that   the                 
  Governor's spending plan requires an increased draw from the                 
  constitutional  budget reserve  from this  year compared  to                 
  last year.  That indicates that  "We're not even meeting the                 
  changes .  . . with the  level of reductions in  the budget.                 
  We're increasing the level  of draw down of reserves."   Ms.                 
  McConnell concurred and acknowledged a long way to go before                 
  the  gap is closed.   Consensus must  be developed regarding                 
  the mix of tools used to achieve that.                                       
                                                                               
  Co-chairman  Halford  remarked   that  the  proposed  budget                 
  includes pay  increases based  on contracts  and comparative                 
  provisions.   He  then  asked if  pay  increases for  exempt                 
  employees  were  included.    Ms. McConnell  explained  that                 
  funding for non-represented employees is equivalent to "what                 
  was being done  in the labor contracts."  It  equates to 1/2                 
  of the CPI with a cap of 1-1/2 percent.  Co-chairman Halford                 
  referenced a proposal  from last year for  reducing salaries                 
  of  exempt employees  and inquired  about the  status.   Ms.                 
  McConnell  responded  that  some  salaries  are  limited  by                 
  statute.  She cited commissioners as an example, and advised                 
  that she was not  taking her pay increase.   A comprehensive                 
  proposal is not  being recommended by the  administration at                 
  this time.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Halford next inquired regarding recovery of COLA                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  overpayments  within  the  marine   highway  system.     Ms.                 
  McConnell said  she did not  know the status.   She said she                 
  would ask  that the commissioner provide  information during                 
  overview  of   the  Dept.  of   Transportation  and   Public                 
  Facilities' budget.                                                          
                                                                               
  Discussion followed regarding  budgetary recognition of  RIP                 
  benefits.    [The   following  is   a  transcript  of   that                 
  discussion.]                                                                 
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Halford - Just one  final question.  With regard                 
  to the    RIP benefits,  how are  the RIP  benefits actually                 
            realized in the budget?                                            
                                                                               
  Annalee McConnell - Because the exact effects of the RIP, or                 
  where     they  would take place,  can't be determined right                 
            now, what we  decided to  do was show  that as  an                 
            aggregate amount as  part of the $13  million that                 
            would require statutory change in order to happen.                 
            The way we expect to implement  it . . . .   We're                 
            still working out some of the technical aspects of                 
            it,  but what  we would be  doing is  working with                 
            each department.  And, as you probably recall from                 
            last  year's discussion,  we  set  up some  fairly                 
            stringent requirements  for them  to show  savings                 
            out of the RIP program (and over a  shorter period                 
            of time than the previous  version that was three-                 
            years).  We need to figure  out a mechanics in our                 
            accounting   system  for   how   to  handle   that                 
            throughout the year so that we are sure that those                 
            savings, not only that they  happen, but that they                 
            don't get  used in  other ways.    But, the  exact                 
            determination  of who  will  be  ripping can't  be                 
            known  up  front.    We  obviously  can't  require                 
            employees  to  RIP,  for instance.    So,  we have                 
            undertaken . . . .  And the Governor has asked all                 
            of the departments to really begin being extremely                 
            aggressive in  attrition management, so  that when                 
            any vacancy happens, we don't  have to wait for  a                 
            RIP   program   (we  have   vacancies,  obviously,                 
            throughout the year, anyway) that  there be a very                 
            aggressive  review  of those  positions to  see if                 
            that does not open up some opportunities for doing                 
            things differently so that the person doesn't have                 
            to be replaced.   So, we will need to  allocate it                 
            out among the departments, once  we have some idea                 
            of how RIP will be received.                                       
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Halford -  But unless there's some  mechanism to                 
  take the  money out of the  budget, does it not stay  in the                 
            budget and get spent?                                              
                                                                               
  Annalee McConnell  - Well, actually . . . .  No that's why I                 
       referred to some of the mechanics.   I'm trying to work                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
       out  a  system, for  instance,  where we  could  have a                 
       separate account code that we can  sort of lock out, in                 
       a sense.  Once there's a  savings in that account code,                 
       it  is not  available to the  departments to  spend for                 
       other purposes.  But that would  require . . . .    You                 
       know, we'll have to do a lot of management.                             
                                                                               
  Co-chairman  Halford  - In  terms of  the  next 100  days of                 
  debate, and    getting something done, should we, if we pass                 
                 a RIP bill, include an allocated reduction in                 
                 some way in every department to take back out                 
                 the  projected  savings of  the  RIP?   If we                 
                 don't have some way that takes it out of  the                 
                 budget, it's not a savings.  It doesn't count                 
                 toward the $35  or $40 million that  is being                 
                 claimed as  reached.   There's got  to be  an                 
                 implementation somewhere.                                     
                                                                               
  Annalee McConnell -  That's what I'm  working on right  now.                 
  I've      begun   conversations   with  the   department  of                 
            administration  and  finance,  in  particular,  on                 
            setting up  some mechanism  for us  to do  exactly                 
            that.  I don't want those savings to dribble away.                 
            The whole point of  it is to capture it,  grab it,                 
            and keep it as a savings, and not let it get spent                 
            for other purposes.                                                
                                                                               
  [End of transcript.]                                                         
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Frank complimented Ms. McConnell on  her efforts                 
  to make  improvements in the budget process.   Ms. McConnell                 
  advised that she  was open  to suggestions on  "ways we  can                 
  make this information clearer."                                              
                                                                               
  Senator Sharp referenced news reports of the Governor's six-                 
  year  plan and asked  that copies be  provided to committee.                 
  Ms. McConnell explained that Governor  Knowles spoke to need                 
  to close the fiscal gap "in no more than six years."  He did                 
  not indicate he had a plan.  He said he  would work with the                 
  legislature.  The  long-range financial planning  commission                 
  set up a four-year plan to close  the gap.  It is clear that                 
  some elements of the  plan (the cap on the  dividend and the                 
  permanent fund endowment becoming  effective next year  were                 
  cited)  will  not  happen  right  away.    Governor  Knowles                 
  acknowledges that if those proposals are not acceptable, the                 
  administration  and  legislature  must   develop  acceptable                 
  options.                                                                     
  Senator Sharp voiced  reluctance by legislators to  push tax                 
  reform legislation because of what happened last year to  "a                 
  lot of  hard-worked bills  that went  through the  committee                 
  process  with the  administration attending  every committee                 
  meeting" and  having opportunity  for input.   The  Governor                 
  should place specific proposals on the table.                                
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Senator  Sharp  next referenced  the  $12 million  switch in                 
  funding source  contained  within the  proposed $35  million                 
  reduction,  saying that it  does not reflect  a reduction of                 
  expenditures per se.  Ms. McConnell pointed to two  problems                 
  faced by  the state.   The  first is  the fiscal  gap.   The                 
  second is alternative means of providing needed services and                 
  charging fees, if appropriate.   Senator Sharp concurred but                 
  stressed that the  $12 million  should not be  treated as  a                 
  budget reduction.                                                            
                                                                               
  Referencing rate  increases at pioneer  homes, Senator Sharp                 
  acknowledged  endorsement  evidenced  by  the  pioneer  home                 
  advisory board letter but said he  found no residents at the                 
  Fairbanks home  who worked with the administration on the 49                 
  to 75% monthly increase effective February 1.  Ms. McConnell                 
  said that  representatives of  the advisory  board met  with                 
  families  at every  pioneer  home statewide.   She  said she                 
  would  provide a summary  of meetings.   Further, staff held                 
  follow-up meetings  with families to answer  questions about                 
  services, rates, lack of ability to pay, etc.  Senator Sharp                 
  noted that most  residents endorse some form  of adjustment.                 
  He referenced last  year's 10%  increase and questioned  the                 
  magnitude of increases  projected for  the next seven  years                 
  and  suggested that it would result  in "a lot of people not                 
  paying you anything  because you've reduced them  to paupers                 
  more quickly than at  the old rate."  Since  these residents                 
  will  not be  evicted, there  will  be a  diminishing return                 
  situation in terms  of savings.   Ms. McConnell advise  that                 
  the   foregoing  situation   was  taken   into   account  in                 
  development  of a sliding  fee schedule for  those who could                 
  not afford the cost of care.                                                 
                                                                               
  Senator Sharp next referenced  proposed legislation to place                 
  an  income  cap  on  eligibility  for the  longevity  bonus.                 
  Accompanying  fiscal   notes  reflect   reductions  but   no                 
  personnel   or    cost   increases   for    examination   of                 
  qualifications  of the 28,000  bonus recipients to determine                 
  whether  or  not they  fall under  the  cap.   Ms. McConnell                 
  advised of inclusion of $325.0  in the budget for  longevity                 
  bonus administration.   A note  to that effect  was to  have                 
  been included in the  narrative section of the fiscal  note.                 
  Co-chairman Halford stressed  that fiscal note law  requires                 
  that the financial impact from passage or lack of passage of                 
  legislation be shown.  Submission within the budget does not                 
  meet that law.                                                               
                                                                               
  Discussion  followed  regarding  position  upgrades.    [The                 
  following is a transcript of that discussion.]                               
                                                                               
  Senator Pearce - I have a  question.  In your comments about                 
  the  proposed RIP bill,  Annalee brought up a  question that                 
       I've had that comes up from  a situation that I've been                 
       told is at the international airport in Anchorage.  And                 
       I haven't had an opportunity to check it clearly.  But,                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
       what  is  the process  the  administration uses  when a                 
       department wants to  [increase] a grade?   What process                 
       do you go  through to make sure that  any increase of a                 
       range and grade for an employee is proper?                              
                                                                               
  Annalee McConnell - I'm not sure what the formal process is.                 
  I    haven't asked for anything to be upgraded, so I haven't                 
       gone through that.  But I'd have to check it out.                       
                                                                               
  Senator Pearce  - .  . .  are upgrading  positions.   And  I                 
  wondered how   . . . .  You know, what sort of control do we                 
                 keep over that?  Ripping may or may not help,                 
                 in   the  long  term,  if  people,  once  the                 
                 position is empty, upgrade it so that the new                 
                 person  comes  in at  a  higher range,  not a                 
                 lower range.  I assume there is a process.                    
                                                                               
  Annalee McConnell -  I assume there is  too.  Like I  say, I                 
  haven't   . . . .                                                            
  Co-chairman Frank   -  Could you  give  us a  report on  the                 
  activity on    upgrades so that we get a feel for that?                      
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger -  Do you review upgrades  at all?  Or  is it                 
  some      departments and not others?  I mean OMB.                           
                                                                               
  Annalee McConnell  - I don't  personally review .  . . .   I                 
  can't     speak   to  that.    I  don't  know.    I  haven't                 
            personally reviewed them  so I  don't know.   I'll                 
            have to check out and see what the process . . . .                 
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Frank  - Is that something that's handled by the                 
       division of  personnel in the  Dept. of Administration,                 
       or do you know?                                                         
                                                                               
  Annalee McConnell - Or  it may be handled  . . . .   I'm not                 
  sure.     I mean, I assume . . . .                                           
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Frank  - It  seems like  an important  budgetary                 
  control   thing that maybe  we should change  the law . .  .                 
            and require that you get the opportunity to review                 
            that if you don't now have that opportunity.                       
                                                                               
  [End of transcript.]                                                         
                                                                               
  Senator Pearce referenced meetings  between the Governor and                 
  members  of  the  business community  and  a  proposed media                 
  campaign to "try to force  the legislature to do something."                 
  She  suggested  that  proceeding  in that  manner  is  not a                 
  constructive  way  of  achieving   cooperation  between  the                 
  parties.    The  legislature  plans  to  have  a  long-range                 
  strategy.  The legislature has not ignored budget problems.                  
                                                                               
  END:      SFC-96, #2, Side 2                                                 
  BEGIN:    SFC-96, #3, Side 1                                                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Ms. McConnell said  she did not participate  in the meetings                 
  but  advised  of  her understanding  that  legislators  were                 
  invited to attend.   She  referenced recommendations of  the                 
  financial planning commission and  acknowledged that she did                 
  not personally support  all proposals.   Information derived                 
  by the commission  indicated that  the public sentiment  was                 
  not "where we all thought."  People may well accept  some of                 
  the tax proposals more readily  than anticipated.  Proposals                 
  for  alcohol  and tobacco  taxes  have broader  support than                 
  earlier realized.   The  same is  true for  the income  tax.                 
  There is much to learn about where  the public stands.  More                 
  information  could  also be  shared  with the  public.   Ms.                 
  McConnell noted indication  by the  business community  that                 
  the  public  does not  understand  that the  legislature has                 
  already done a considerable amount to  reduce the budget and                 
  per capita spending.  Statistics  evidence reductions of 25%                 
  over the past five years.                                                    
                                                                               
  Senator Zharoff  referenced  earlier  estimates  of  a  $525                 
  million   deficit  and   inquired   concerning  an   updated                 
  projection.   Ms. McConnell  advised  of an  expected FY  96                 
  fiscal gap of  $429 million.  Some  FY 96 tax revenues  were                 
  higher than anticipated.  That is the largest adjustment.                    
                                                                               
  Senator Zharoff next asked how much of the Governor's budget                 
  is  predicated on federal  funding.  He  then inquired about                 
  the status of federal revenues.  Ms. McConnell said that the                 
  budget assumes that problems with the Medicaid formula would                 
  be fixed.  The congressional  delegation was in the  process                 
  of trying to work to modify current proposals so that Alaska                 
  would not be  penalized.  Information from  the commissioner                 
  of the Dept.  of Health and Social  Services indicates there                 
  may not be  final resolution of Medicaid  questions "anytime                 
  in the next  couple of  months."  Philosophical  differences                 
  here remain broad  compared to AFDC where all  proposals are                 
  generally the  same.   Senator Zharoff  voiced concern  over                 
  variables within the budget over which the state has limited                 
  control.   Co-chairman  Frank acknowledged  that legislation                 
  would  be  required  for  AFDC  reform  and  said  that  the                 
  legislature   would  work   with   the  administration   and                 
  congressional delegation.                                                    
                                                                               
  Co-chairman  Halford  expressed  frustration  over  numerous                 
  plans but no  consensus or willingness to "put  something on                 
  the table."  It is the obligation of the Governor to propose                 
  a budget  and a spending  plan containing all  the necessary                 
  elements.   He  questioned how  a  five-year plan  could  be                 
  developed  if  a  plan  for  the  first year  has  not  been                 
  forthcoming.  The Senator advised that he would start with a                 
  $200  million  cut,  a $200  million  development,  and only                 
  thereafter would  "I go  to the  private sector  to get  the                 
  money."   He then urged that the Governor present a plan "at                 
  least  for the first  year."  Ms.  McConnell responded, "You                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  have the  plan for the first  year . . . the  FY 97 budget."                 
  Co-chairman Halford  said that it  does not contain  all the                 
  necessary elements and cited lack of  a capital budget as an                 
  example.  Ms. McConnell reiterated that it would total  $110                 
  million.   Details will  be available  by January  31.   She                 
  suggested that discussions  centering on closing  the fiscal                 
  cap were  not  being "held  up" by  "what amount  is in  the                 
  capital  budget."   She  again referenced  the state  of the                 
  budget  address   and   noted  that   the   Governor   spoke                 
  specifically to taxes and fees, the income tax, and dividend                 
  cap.                                                                         
                                                                               
  Senator Donley  concurred in  the  Governor's reluctance  to                 
  introduce a  plan he  does not  totally support.   The  plan                 
  recommended by  the long range financial planning commission                 
  is  not  necessarily  the  same  as  that  proposed  by  the                 
  administration.   Referring to discussion of  taxes, Senator                 
  Donley  advised  that  his  constituents  are  interested in                 
  additional  reductions to state spending.   He said he would                 
  not  vote for  taxes before  reductions in  spending can  be                 
  shown to the public.                                                         
                                                                               
  Senator   Donley   complimented   the    administration   on                 
  correspondence to departments seeking priorities in light of                 
  percentage reductions in the budget.  He then voiced need to                 
  review   those   priorities   in  the   course   of   budget                 
  preparations.                                                                
                                                                               
  Ms.  McConnell reiterated  that cuts  have been  made.   The                 
  administration is not proposing taxes before effecting cuts.                 
  She cited  direct expenditure  reductions last  year and  in                 
  preceding  years.   At  the  same  time, there  were  no tax                 
  increases or major shifts in funding to user support.                        
                                                                               
  Senator Donley asked  what programs would be  eliminated and                 
  what  services  would  no  longer  be  performed  under  the                 
  proposed budget.  Ms. McConnell said that the list presented                 
  December 15 cites  the types of reductions  and streamlining                 
  efforts.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Co-chairman  Frank  referenced   the  education   foundation                 
  program  and  requested  information  on  projected  student                 
  counts versus  actual numbers.   Ms. McConnell  acknowledged                 
  last year's discussion of  the issue and the fact  that past                 
  information was based  not on state numbers  but information                 
  submitted by school districts using the statutory October 15                 
  deadline.     She   explained   that   Rick  Cross,   Deputy                 
  Commissioner, Dept.  of Education, has  taken responsibility                 
  for improving and  analyzing count information.   It is  not                 
  yet known whether  a statutory change  will be needed.   Co-                 
  chairman  Frank  concurred  in  possible  need  for  change,                 
  advising that the statute is vague  and could be interpreted                 
  in a number of ways.  He stressed need for good numbers.                     
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Co-chairman  Halford  asked   if  the  Legislative   Finance                 
  Division could  be  provided agency  responses  relating  to                 
  proposed percentage (10 to 20% were cited)  reductions.  Ms.                 
  McConnell said  that OMB requested  that departments provide                 
  that information  verbally.  She  stressed that she  did not                 
  wish  departments to devote considerable effort to proposals                 
  that "aren't going to  go anywhere."  For  some departments,                 
  the  proposed  20%  reduction  over  three  years  would  be                 
  unacceptable.     The  effort   was  intended  to  determine                 
  "conceptually where are we headed on these ideas."                           
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  The meeting was adjourned at approximately 10:55 a.m.                        
                                                                               

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